The first house, in Canada we say house, here it's a villa, like it worth 2 million dollars. It was like on the market for two months. I staged it. Believe it or not, they got offer in 24 hours, sold in 48 hours.

Hi, thank you for having me.

So there is a huge difference between the two. So styling and staging, and design. So design is more personal. You walk in a client house and who want you to design his house. And first thing you should ask about it, his personal choices, what does he like, what does he want in his house, how does he feel when he has this furniture, what kind of styling he likes. All these preferences. It's more the client choices and preferences. Staging is a different thing. First of all, you don't have to ask the client what does he want because this, it's meant to be for buyers. All kind of the audience, number one is the buyers or tenants. It's for rental or for selling. So you have to work on the space basically with strategy and system. And it's not about decoration, it's a marketing tool.

Yeah. It's a tool you use to help sell or rent faster.

What makes me start this business is the problem of, I seen a lot, I worked a lot close to real estate agents. So I seen a lot of nice homes, nice houses, nice apartments that stay on market for too long. Even they are...

Too long, like for months. Yeah, like for sometimes two, three months. Especially, this was in North America, and once after six weeks in North America, it's too much. It's the house is done. Like the owner has to reduce the price and start to think about solution and it's a panic. So I said to myself, oh my god, this needs something. It needs... why they think, like they spend a lot of money on renovations, on construction, but then they present the house as is, empty. So that doesn't make sense, that doesn't feel anything to the buyer. It's just walls. Yeah, I know, I understand that materials and all these things count, but it's not, it doesn't make them feel or attract emotionally. Once they walk in the space, they won't say, 'Oh, can I imagine myself living here?'

I think it's not really a good approach because when you stage a space, you help the buyer define this place, you know. When you give it to him, sometimes it's a huge villa. When a buyer walk in, he doesn't even think, it's not clear to understand the space. Where can I put my living room? Where do you think we will stay here? Is this room can be office or a bedroom? While when you stage it for him, it's everything is clear. And it's you can't believe it, it's from the first seconds they walk in, they the impression of they will decide this is the house or not. Then they will think logically. First they think emotion. But then they will think logically about price, about locations. This comes in second and third place.

That's a good question because most sellers, as you said, when they want to sell, they don't want to spend money. For them staging is a spending money. They don't think it's a return on their investment. They don't think about it like this way until they see the results later. So for them they think that it's a money. They don't think it's a marketing they will it will help them. Because for them, 'It's empty, it's okay, I will sell it'. But they don't know that for example if it's apartment in the same building, they have four, five, six similar apartment to yours. And people, especially here in Dubai, buyers mostly buy online. It's not like walk in, visit. And online, if it's empty, it doesn't say anything. In the same building you have this apartment and this apartment similar. So what make your apartment have higher value? What makes you think that the buyer will go and choose this apartment and not the other? There's nothing special that make it showcase it in the better way. So staging, when you stage it, you make a... You can't believe how many places that I stage, you see two, apartment A and apartment B. The same thing. One staged, one empty. One sells faster, in two weeks maximum, the other one stay on the market. Just because it's nothing, doesn't say anything to the buyer.

Top priorities is declutter if it's furniture already. Or if it's empty, you have to choose flow, to focus on the flow. Make it easy for them to walk in and clean lines. You define that, okay, this is a room that, oh, I can see myself in this kitchen. I love this kitchen. I love this bedroom. I love, you know, so it's clean, calm. You choose the colors, you have it has to be like lighting. You can't believe lighting how much it makes the space luxury and feel more expensive. It's not only because you have to add lamps. It's not about that. I had a comment from a buyer the other day. There is no sheer because the seller didn't want to spend money on sheer, on curtains or window treatments. So what do you think the buyer said? And why she didn't like the space? 'This space is too bright.'

Is this, because it's sunny, so she didn't see herself. And this is a big topic in Dubai, right? Of course. I don't blame someone who want to reduce cost. Our role is always to reduce cost, not spending as I told you as a designer. We're not designer here, we're stager. But for some spaces, let me tell you if you need a sheer or curtains or no. And then he told me, 'Yeah, you were right Rym, we need to do we need to add sheer here'. I told, 'Yeah, that's why we need to work on flow and space and on the scale'. Because you can't use big furniture in a smaller space. We can't do because it will make the space more crowded and more. And we focus a lot on the photoshoot. Of course. Because our job is first... that's the biggest selling point I guess. Yeah, because people especially in Dubai, 90% are online. Because they are most of them overseas and so you have to make it work for photoshoot and for photos. Number one.

Yeah, yes. We sometimes use fake mattress. You know. So how do you operate with sheers? Because I guess this is not easy to... Sheer, yeah, sheer it's not... We can have like ready made curtains instead or ready made sheers sometimes. So we have to find the solution. We have... We have suppliers that helps, that can work even overnight.

Yes, of course we can. That's what we do also. We do, we call it turnkey. So to make it easy for buyer because as I told you, especially here in Dubai, people and buyers are coming from overseas. So they want to have something ready for them especially, and we work on making everything not like simple. My company is known for luxury staging. So we try to make it look beautiful to attract them for turnkey and they wanted to have it as is.

As I told you, lighting. First of all. The flow. You have to make it, when they walk in or even when they visualize and on photos, it has to feel like spacious. There is enough space for me for my kids to walk, to play. It's not crowded, it's not dark, heavy. In pictures because when it's more like, when you use big furniture, a lot of accessories, a lot of cushions, a lot of throws, people think more is better. But no, for staging and for to make it luxury, less is better.

Of course, yes. I use a lot of things to make as I told you, I always play on the emotion and imagination of the buyer. So you have to use some real stuff. Like some fruit or sometimes for kitchen, oil and vinegar stuff. Things like that. Plants, greens, a vase. But depends of the kitchen, depend of the texture, the fixture that are using, marble. So you work with this. You go with this. If it's traditional, is it modern? So you can use anything. You add the bar stools. These are luxury. How? You choose your furniture. It's not too much, but anything you choose, it has to be like quality, attractive and make you feel calm and luxury. You're in a nice comfort space.

We use the that budget to make it... First of all as I told you, if it's furnish already, we have to remove anything that is extra, small instead of big, big instead of, like small rug? No. It has to be changed. And personal stuff? And all the personal stuff. Anything, pictures, photos, family pictures, shoes, arts, that they are that they are personal, not neutral. Because in staging you have to use a lot of neutral stuff. Not boring neutral, but neutral that says things. Yeah, and that nobody has like a big opinion about. Of course. Yeah, not subjective like. It has to be objects. Something nice. That's it.

Usually, first of all I have to know this apartment or villa meant to for what. Is it for sell, for renter, for Airbnb? So according to this I can choose what I will do. Because they are different. For selling you have to do neutral, luxury space that make the buyer imagine himself there. For rental it has to be, it's almost the same thing, just the material and furniture will change. You will look for long time materials, long lasting, things like that. For Airbnb it's more experience for the guest. You want to make it like hotel feel. You know. It's like it's a hotel feel. I'm coming here for few days, for few weeks. So it has to be like different. And then once I know for we for the like the audience, the target audience, then I move for furniture. I have to decide where to put this and this. The rooms, like how many bedrooms, if we decide to add office instead of a third bedroom or depends of location, numbers of rooms, things like that. And then lighting. And if we need sheer, curtains, window treatments or not. And at the end the accessories.

Depends of the size.

Apartment it takes maximum one week.

Okay. So you have you already have your furniture there. And you want to sell it furnish. Yeah. I have so many. Today I had three clients like this. And they don't want to get rid of everything because they said, 'Oh we don't want to get rid... we have a we want to sell it as is'. I have to advise them. This won't picture very well. You have to get rid of this. I'm sorry, we have to remove this bed. We have to remove this rug. We have to change this. Because it won't look good on your listing, on your photo. So like today, I said that to the client. He saw... 'Oh, I never thought about the photos'. I told him, and that's why we're here, because we're working for the photos. Are you going to list your apartment or not? He said yes. I told him take even your phone and look. If you keep this sofa, does it look nice to you? It doesn't look. It's a brown old sofa. It will look, it will make the entire space look very old and cheap. Just one detail like this. But then usually I guess they listen to you in the end, right? At the end they listen. Why they hire me then? You're spending money so you have to listen to me.

For staging, the difference, the strategy is the same. You market both to sell and to showcase the space. But it's the difference is for example the lifestyle. It's different. In North America you focus more on staging indoors because of the weather. So you focus on the fireplace. It fireplace for example in North America is a focal point. So you have to work towards that, to make it feel for people family they are hanging around the fireplace. So you choose your sofa, your sitting, your living area, things like that. Here in Dubai it's the opposite. Here I hear a lot of clients telling me, 'Oh we're coming to Sunny Dubai. We want to feel this sunny Dubai in the house, in the home'. So you focus more, sunny Dubai, okay here we have the outdoors. We have the pool. We focus to showcase the pools in villas, in big villas. We show them that the outdoor is very beautiful, very nice. So we show them we have okay barbecue and we put the bar counters, look how you it will be in summer. So that's and the colors too. In North America you try to use warmth, layers, throws, things like that. Here you try to make it look neutral, more neutral, more light, bright. Works with the material too because we don't use the same material here and there. Like North America the cold area there and the warmth here. So it's different.

It's not that difficult. You just have to focus because it's not about again it's not about decoration. It's about to showcase, okay, look at this villa, it has a special outdoor sitting. It's very beautiful. So you show them the barbecue even if it's built in barbecue, you have to show them you put some bar stools, I mean the lounges, things like that. But not too much. Make the space speak but neutral. Still neutral. Add some greens, some planters, some lanterns, things like that. So it's not too much.

For locals, they focus on the living and the outdoors a lot. Living areas. Yeah, the majlis. So we focus on showing them this. And they like the outdoors too. They have very big important interest in their outdoors. They wanted to be big and nice and for family gathering and all these things.

It's been for over three years now here in Dubai. So the struggle was at the beginning, the mindset. Because for them here in... especially I'm coming for after years in North America, like I'm over 15 years of staging and design. So where staging is driven, it's like a marketing tool. It's very... I can tell you 95% of sellers stage their home. But here when they hire you, okay they I think they Google and looking for staging, but then when you speak to them, they speak to you as a designer. 'I want, what's the package and I want this sofa and I want this... But why are you hire me if you want this and this? I'm here to tell you what you need and what your apartment needs'. So I found a big challenge in this. The mindset is very different. They hire you, they want to know everything in the list. What you will add, what you will do, what you... 'No, can you can we change the coffee table? Let's do...' Oh come on. We need to do this coffee table, not this coffee table. That doesn't work. It won't look good. It will make the space big. So but now it's getting better, you know. In three years a lot of European investors... Which is funny because in Europe this is not a thing. Yeah. But I think still it's not it's different than North American. I don't have a lot unfortunately I don't have a lot of North American clients here. It's mostly European or but still they are getting better. They still understand what's staging and what's difference between decoration or styling or designing. So it's getting better.

Both. Both. I had both. From Google and from word of mouth. So especially I work with investors. This investor say the others, this one... So okay, this she helped me sell our apartment, she helped me... so that's how.

It depends of sometimes there is seasons that it's dead.

In summer yes it was more challenging. I think people think about going for holidays and so they stop even investors that I know, they slow down in summers because maybe they take care of their families, they take travel. So yeah. So basically a little bit low season in summer.

Furniture. Okay. Yeah furniture. So do you do you work with with like store certain stores that you you give you the furniture for some time for the staging or how does that work? Because I can imagine it's not so easy to to get all these things together. Yeah it's not it's not easy. So I work with different scales. I have some my own inventory. I have suppliers that work I work with, I partner with, so they you use their furniture. So it's a promotion for them and help me in my work with special prices we do together. And we do the turnkey apartments or villas. So we just buy for the client and he owns the furniture. So we either rent using my inventory and the suppliers help or we do turnkey furniture so the client owns we he give us the budget we buy for him and he owns his he sell it as is.

I have, yeah. I have some people helping me yes. So your company has a good size I guess then. Yes. Because it's hard to do it all by myself. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work.

I think in Dubai it's a long time. Three years here it's I think 7, 8 years in Canada. But no for staging in Canada don't give me wrong we work we were so so busy too. There it's like I work six days a week nonstop. Here at least sometimes we stop. I get a break between a client or client. But there nonstop. Yeah because I mean I know that the staging it basically originates from North America. They were the first ones who started this whole staging thing. Because as I said and here it's also a a thing but in Europe I'm telling you like I I don't think I have ever seen anything staged in Europe. It's so like only a few people are doing it so I don't know it's starting to get there but also there are not a lot of staging companies or something you have to really find someone usually the the real estate agents are doing it on the side a little bit you know because there is no one else who can do it and as I said people don't want to spend money on this. Because they want to... Exactly. But it's wrong. I know because as you said it's a marketing tool. It's marketing tool and they you know the first what makes me do this as a living and make me think about it and even interior design it doesn't interest me as much as staging. The first house, villa, in Canada we say house, here it's a villa, like it worth 2 million dollars. It's be it was like on the market for two months. I staged it. Believe it or not, they got offer in 24 hours, sold in 48 hours. Wow. After two months on the market. Then I said, Rym, this is it. You have to do this. You have to help people doing this. You have to and those people remember those client they couldn't believe it. They they just was shocked. They said, 'What?' But I changed everything. It was terrible like it was it's a very beautiful home, expensive everything but it's not well presented at all. It had more potential I guess. A lot of potential. So I staged it in it took me like three four days to stage it. Got offer in 24 hours, sold in 48 hours. And then since then I said I will keep doing this. I will keep doing doing it.

The weather. I totally understand. The weather. I was tired of cold. Where were you? In Toronto? Alberta. Oh okay. It's even worse than Toronto. No I mean the weather is one of the top three I think picks why people come here. No.

Two bedrooms like... 80,000?

I do this because it's emotional. It gives the first impression for walking. But not too much. Because sometimes you get a buyer that has sensitive is sensitive to smells or so. We choose smell but very light like candles, things like that.

To make it big light colors. Lightning, lamps. And the scale. Scaling the right size of furniture, rugs. That makes bigger and make it feel bigger.

Yes. Yes especially when you place it to a close to a window. It makes a huge difference.

Personal stuff.

Believe in staging. If you want to sell fast or rent fast and get the best of it and the value and the like stage your home. And trust. Trust the process. You won't regret.

Thank you. Thank you for having me.