I think the easiest thing to say is that you don't need to develop a second personality to become organized. You just need the systems that will support who are you today and not you know future version of yourself or imagined version of yourself, what you were yesterday.

Thank you for having me.

Well, thank you for having me again. Yeah, well the Tidy Flow came into my life in 2019 for a very long time 10 years my career was in B2B marketing and I worked for a German multinational company. When Marie Kondo became visible internationally, I became a fan almost immediately because I feel I was organized child even, you know I always loved to have my things in order and to pack my bag for the next day of school even from the night before and I always loved to hey I need something, I know where to get it from and I was good at returning it to the same place. Hence when Marie Kondo became internationally known, I took a chance I guess and I went to New York in late 2019 to get trained in home organizing. And you know at that time I was thinking that I'm just you know polishing a hobby and trying to learn from the best. And after that of course COVID hit and in home sessions were not allowed anymore and that's actually the core business for this type of activity so I naturally just focused on my corporate career. Unfortunately after some time my lost my marketing role. And from time to time I came back to tidying and organizing and you know just keeping my marketing skills alive with the Tidy Flow which sort of became a you know a refuge from all the rejections. But thing is all the time that I came back to it I realized I'm applying my experience and everything that I have learned during these 10 years in marketing into building the Tidy Flow so the client understanding, the structure building, the positioning everything. So quite a aha moment for me. And gradually I stopped searching for a new job and I just put everything I have into building Tidy Flow so yeah this is this is how it came to be.

Honestly I think it was a combination because we my sister and I grew up in a household where everything has had it home, you know the every item had a particular home so you knew hey if I need the keys they will be in a particular place. So I always loved that easiness that comes with I know where my things are, I will not waste time searching for them. And I think that's how it came to be. And as you know kids learn through seeing, not through what they're told so if you project that kind of situation I think they will naturally follow so yeah.

I think you touched a really good point and yes indeed from East European background I guess it was all the same so this scarcity feeling, right? We don't have so when we get it let's take two or three of each because who knows I might need it someday which is funny because this mindset is you can even find it today. But I'm guessing that us as millennials we of course try to pull away from this this clutter environment. And we went all the way to the other side like minimalistic like you said, you know operating room, hotel lobby kind of atmosphere. And then there's something in between like of course there are people who are you know naturally more layered or more expressive and they like things and that's fine. There's no right or wrong. What I think made my business possible is just the I think right now millennials are finding it hard to maybe relate to this minimalistic trend and they're kind of breaking away hey maybe I like stuff. Yeah you like stuff. It's fine. Just make them work for who you are today and in the environment that you have today. So this is when I say that the Tidy Flow is about creating less friction in your life whether you have lots of stuff or I don't know you like the hotel aesthetic so.

When Marie Kondo became visible, I really appreciated that she made organizing visible and intentional. And then in the end you see divided by borders, united by clutter because you can basically totally see that we all have basically the same issues it's just in different places. She showed the transformation is possible. Yeah. So when Marie Kondo came about her philosophy was just to limit of all the possible questions that you might have about the stuff in your house and how to solve it, asking yourself does this spark joy? And you would basically pick any item in your home and does it spark joy? I over the years I adapted I really resonated with that. But over the years I adapted my my approach because first of all I realized that rigid rules don't necessarily serve busy families or busy households. And also some people you know they resonate more with practical language than with the emotional language. So even if you would ask somebody does this spark joy for you, other person might not understand what you mean by joy. So you can ask does this item earn earns its place in in your home. Because I can give you an example yeah nobody jumps for joy at the sight of their vacuum cleaner right. But it makes your cleaning faster and definitely more efficient. So obviously then it deserves its space in in your home. So you know sometimes joy is emotional but sometimes it's all about usefulness and convenience they both work so.

You are right. What I noticed though is after she had her third child if I'm not mistaken, she came out to say that actually you know it is very hard to maintain this type of lifestyle when you have kids. And of course we're talking here about applying a formula universally to everybody and that's not possible. Because the best system, the best organizing system that there is is the one that you will actually use on a tired Tuesday. And I cannot apply my system to your system and make it work perfectly and you'll be happy and I'll be happy it it doesn't happen.

Yes, you're right. You're absolutely right. What I always say is tidy is about how things look and organize is how they function. And here of course we talk about minimalism because it's optional okay minimalism is optional, functionality is not. However you can have a tidy house but you cannot find anything or it is hard to keep right or you can have an organized home that is not minimalistic and still it works. And it works for you. So this is what I like to you know say all the time it is a balance always.

What I would like to say from the beginning is that people do not get messy intentionally okay. So usually how things happen is if you think about stuff comes into your house every day right and people do not pause to reorganize their houses in that moment. Usually the decluttering and organizing decision comes at a breaking point okay. Either people come reach the point where they just say you know what I cannot live like this anymore. Or they're preparing for some sort of event you know like a baby is coming or guests are expected something. And this is the type of client that reaches out to me whether they have just moved countries or they're planning to move and they want to take let's say only the necessities. This is the usual client that I get.

So talking about something that could be potentially applied universally in this organizing and being an organized person is that every item in your house needs to have an assigned home as well yeah. Think about I mean maybe you like the keys tray where it says keys and you put your keys there. I think it's almost as in an apartment building you will park your car only at your assigned place and not somewhere else or 10 floors down or two up because that's where you know you're gonna get it from. It's the same with everything that you that you own. And as soon as you work on building new habits okay you don't put it down you put it away in its space where you know you're gonna get it from next time it all sort of you know flows in a cascade.

Absolutely like this right? So you just have to make it a habit. The habits are there but maybe they're not serving you so well right? So let's say right now I'll go to sleep and leave my dishwasher or my sink full as it is and my counters as they are. That's a habit for you and you go to bed. That's a habit as well. Then we're gonna change this habit into hey the 10 to 5 minute reset rule that we do every night. So I'm gonna wipe the counters, gonna put on the dishwasher, I'm gonna vacuum if there's crumbs in the kitchen okay nothing crazy. And then go to bed and the next morning you wake up and you don't feel like you're already behind because you look at all the stuff I already have to do.

What I noticed is clutter is basically an accumulation of... clutter is happening where the volume of items that are entering your house is bigger than the system you have to contain it right? That's a good definition yeah. So yeah exactly so and usually it's a combination of some sort of mental overload yeah you procrastinate there's an emotional attachment to particular things and you do not want to to deal with it. So a lot of mental overload plus the just in case mindset. Which we all have.

It depends. For example I'm a fan of hey I can keep this box but not I'll put it away just in case. Maybe the day before I had some I don't know crayons or markers or whatever and instead of them just laying around you know loose in a drawer or something I will definitely take the iPhone box and put them in there why because it's there it's useful I'm not wasting and second of all it's gonna help me keep my money I'm not gonna go and buy a box that is maybe a clear box you know like a special I already have the box might as well use it if you need it then but if this lovely someday comes and someday doesn't have a timeline then just throw it away definitely.

That's a very good question. So I have different type of people. For example there are people who already know what they want they're clear and intentional and absolutely quickly to work with. And others who are aware that they need to make a change and they're waiting for me as a guidance you know and both are fine. When people do not already have let's say their priorities made up, it always helps if I ask them if I had brought a magic wand with me today, where would you point it at first? And that usually you know it clicks like what would what would be helpful for you to feel different in three hours time let's say. What would it be helpful for you to see changed in order to be happier than three hours ago. So yeah.

Yeah, sometimes it does happen. And they are very okay to mention that to me. I try to tell them that hey nobody has it together 100% of the time all the time and in every category and aspects of their life. So it's fine. And whatever you're going through right now is just a chapter of your book and it's not permanent. And you already did the big step. I'm here so we're gonna do it.

I get why you would say that because kitchen is not necessarily only your space so you're not the only one responsible for it. So when it becomes multiple people's responsibility then it tends to create friction.

I guess so. Well I think that everybody struggle is different and you know what makes it difficult for people to an item to be decluttered is definitely the emotional attachment they have decided upon like what do I do with this. It's not the item itself but it's what it represents. Because okay things are things but we attribute them the value right and so for you it might be the kitchen. For some people it's clothes. Okay because clothes represents identity. Yeah who I am versus who I was versus who I'm gonna be or who I thought I would be that's actually a big one that goes into the someday yeah. When it comes to kids stuff that holds a lot of memory and maybe guilt if I throw away I don't know a 10 page glittery workbook from nursery but my kid is 15 now. So it really really depends on what people are going through. But what I how I feel I can help them is to ask this or start from the simple exercise of hey does this fit your life today or does this still serve you today. There's also a lot of fear attached to our items. Okay let's take paperwork for example oh my god I need to keep everything what if I miss something important or what if I'm gonna need it someday. Unless it's your mortgage papers and you need them in 20 years feel free to throw or yeah stuff like that. And guilt again towards items that are maybe expensive or that have been gifted and you know you would not want but you don't like them you don't use them you just keep them there. It's just because something served you once it doesn't mean that it deserves you know prime storage forever. And about expensive things the money is already spent okay. You either have two options either use it or give it away and let this be a lesson for the future you so when you're in the same situation I don't know two years from now or next week you hopefully can make better decisions because you learned a lesson now.

Okay. What happens then? I usually do not work with I do not mediate let's say between partners and within the same household. And usually if somebody if people take accountability for their own items that reduces friction almost immediately. Like you are responsible for your things and we're gonna do your things. Your partner is another story. Now if we're talking about common areas like you mentioned the kitchen of course it depends on how every family sees their dynamics. But if the responsibilities are clearly set and assigned then everybody has to do their part so the thing can work as a whole. It's not fair if only one person does it and only one person is responsible for the kitchen or so how we do it in my family we take turns. So okay the nasty smelly task everybody gets to do it. It's not like I'm only gonna take the trash. No no you take the trash and you do the litter boxes and then you the dusting and yeah that's how it keeps up working.

Absolutely absolutely if you don't want to get mad.

Yeah so this coming again to the part where I adapted from the KonMari method which goes okay you don't love it just throw it away. You can have a maybe box. Keep a maybe box okay not boxes a box keep it reasonable okay. Like it can quickly spiral keep a maybe box. If you haven't used whatever you put in that maybe box for three or six months then it's safe to go and to be used by somebody else. If you're not using it's a good product it's a good item let somebody else be happy with it.

I'm a very big fan of the entry way drop zone okay. The entry way drop zone is an area where you will keep your shoes, put your purse, put your keys, put your wallet. If I go into the house my hands are full and I take my shoes off and I drop my keys on the kitchen table, after I'm done I make sure I go and put my keys and my wallet and so the next time if maybe there's an emergency or maybe I need to leave yeah right away I know where I'm gonna get my things from and I do not have to run around like a headless chicken and has anybody seen fill in the blanks.

I do that as well.

Yeah yeah that's so true.

As I mentioned I opened for business in 2019 actually 2020 but then it flopped really bad because corona. And by the time I got back I mean I it was mostly a hobby and I did some organizing mostly for my friends and they were really happy I was very happy to help them and that worked for a while. And now that I'm back into it and I'm putting 100% work into it, of course it's a lot of backstage work okay the marketing side and building the website and you know all that crazy stuff. But it's nice to see it brought to life and I think there are some businesses like like mine. What I try to think of is not lose sight of the fact that this is it started from a hobby and this is my baby and you know this was definitely in my maybe box. Yeah. And yeah now it's it's it's time so let's see where it can go.

Yes yes yes because as you said you know there's a lot of mental load that goes into having a cluttered space and it's normal you know the saying cluttered house cluttered mind it's always this these things that create noise and they're just screaming at you you did not do your job today. So it's amazing how I guess after seeing the results and people are happy they're happy to mention it and then people ask oh so what did you actually do that brought you this relief. So yeah I'm fortunate to have this word of mouth going for me.

No not really because it really surprised me I think in the beginning that not everybody is like me. And when I realized that I know I was a child and I I was surprised like wow but then immediately thinking I could never do this. I would be scared of not finding what I need to be found or that I need to use. I could not survive like this and then figuring out wow not everybody does this. So yeah.

Yes.

No I don't think so.

Yes yes yes. And this is why I'm saying so I have a smaller sibling. And I guess what annoyed me was when she would borrow my stuff or I would give them to her she would return them but not put them in the same space that I normally keep them. And this is my biggest let's say fight that I have with my kids right now. Okay there's a throw on the couch and you're using it because the AC is blowing and you're cold. It's not enough if the if the blanket was folded and when you're done with it fine you return it to the couch but it's like this it's not good enough. So you put it back and how you found it especially if it's of course it's theirs as well but it's a shared space so just be mindful generally.

Exactly exactly but the same care because again one thing that I tell my kids you have to love yourself first. So if you treat your items like you care for them because you care for yourself then that's self love attitude yeah.

I think the easiest thing to say is that you don't need to develop a second personality to become organized. You just need the systems that will support who are you today and not you know future version of yourself or imagined version of yourself what you were yesterday.

Thank you so much Iwona. It was lovely. It was a pleasure and I loved that we match.

Awesome. Okay. Good. Thank you. Thank you.