I do work with a lot of clients who say, you know, I just don't know where my money goes. The end of the month, it just goes through my fingers. I literally have no idea, couldn't tell you where it goes. Now, what I do is really go back to behaviors, okay? So what are your behaviors? And what we're trying not to do is, we don't want to be, you know, to create that judgment in any ways. But what I want people to do is start thinking about their emotional triggers, okay? So what are the triggers that have triggered that? For often, often, I've worked with clients and they're like, do you know what? Thursdays is my worst day of the week. I have horrible meetings all day, difficult clients, and I literally go home and I just blow loads of money on Amazon delivery.

Oh, thanks for having me.

Yes, of course. So when we think about well-being, we often only think about social or mental or physical well-being. But actually, one of the missing pieces of the puzzle is financial well-being. And this is something that a lot of psychologists have seen and increasingly referenced as this is a key area where they are seeing a lot of people present with psychological issues. A lot of them are stemming in money-related, and where we're seeing again this kind of increased trend is in financial well-being. And what I actually saw during my time, I trained as a holistic financial coach and spent many years in the corporate space, and actually seeing that money goes beyond just the numbers. For a lot of people, it's the emotional side of things, okay? So it's the way we think, feel, and react and respond with money. And that's essentially what our, when we're talking about financial wellness, okay? And where we what we reference to, and I talk about this a lot, is it's not about how much you make, okay? And that's the important thing to mention here. It's how much, how in control you are of your money, okay? So once you feel in control of your money and you feel financially stable, that sets the ground for everything else in your life. So that helps lift your physical, your social, and your mental health. So again, it's another pillar that affects and impacts our overall happiness. And that's what we're talking about financial wellness in general.

Look, it's ingrained in the way that we are and we've been brought up. I always bring this back and a lot of on the psychology of money, if we really delve into it and the same applies to all areas of our life, we look back to our childhood, okay? And we first observe the way that our parents were around money. And our upbringing, those around us, was it spoken about in the home, okay? For many people, it actually was avoided, okay? So conversations around money weren't really had, or if they were, it was slightly in secrecy and it was kind of this topic that we didn't really want to get into or that our parents didn't really want to involve us in. Or, you know, as I said, we would all have heard different messages like money is scarce or we need to avoid it or various aspects. And all of that has been shaped from our upbringing. So our money mindset is actually formed from the ages of around six to seven years old they found. So it's very early on. And for us as parents, it's one of these things that's quite alarming because you think, goodness, what conversations are we actually having with our children when they're around? But they are absorbing, and we have absorbed a lot of those influences. And so, as I said, it's one of those topics, and particularly culturally, if it was seen as a taboo topic or wasn't to be talked about, it's one of these things we've kind of not addressed or publicly addressed. And as we've evolved and obviously grown up over time as well, it's still seen as one of those areas like, oh, we don't talk about money or, you know, like politics. It's something that's to be avoided. We can't surely share what our salary is because people would judge us for that, or we'll feel judged. There's many different concepts and ways and emotions that comes around talking about money in all different types of environments. But again, a lot of it does stem from our childhood. And it also stems from the fact that as women naturally going back quite a few years, and even in this day unfortunately, we do see that the role generally in relationships is taken by the man and the other half. This does happen and we still see it, although we do see a lot of women obviously having their own salaries and feeling empowered to do that. Still a lot of dynamics where the husband manages the money in the household. And this is a global issue that we do see as well. Although we have seen many developments and where salaries are shared and talked about and and joint decision making going on in the household. Still a lot of that is handled by the man in the house. And so often times they, the other half, and I've seen it in many of the couples that I work with, is shut out of conversations or doesn't have, you know, the resources or anything to kind of talk about. So there's many different dynamics as to why we close it down the conversation, which I'm sure we'll kind of come onto more.

Well, do you know what? It's about opening up the conversation around money, okay? So making it accessible. Now, what I always talk about is doing it in different ages as well, okay? So you need to judge and see whether is your child ready to kind of understand about money because at that age, children are still quite young and varying degrees in terms of from an educational perspective. But look, it's about involving them in little things. So often times we can think about ways in which they understand chores and what that happens in terms of getting pocket money. How do we start saving up for our pocket money? For a lot of times around six or seven, I remember my first money memory was losing my tooth. And so and as a result, the tooth fairy exactly. And then it was going to that was seen as an exchange for money. So we're learning things like how does money work? How does it operate? How do we buy things? You know, and encouraging them, you know, when you're out and about shopping, you know, this is how much this is. And this is what we need to give over, you know, money-wise and how it kind of works in those environments, simplifying things, but just making it, don't make it scary. Don't shut down or avoid conversations, that's what I always say. Just to keep it open and try to explain like, today we're gonna prioritize this. Or if they're saying, you know, they're coming to say, Mommy, I want I want to buy this toy in the shop, and I've seen it. Okay, well that's not quite on our priority for today. We're actually going to spend money on this area and we can think about that for another time. So it's not about blocking the conversation, but it's also about just being mindful about what are priorities in the household at the moment, and how does that work. So again, it's a simplifying the language, but also making it age-appropriate for where your child is.

Yeah, so I mean, I wonder if that's more thinking about are they again in a relationship and how is money kind of sorted in the relationship, again that's just something to think about if, you know, how are decisions made as a household. And just making sure that again, if it is a couple, I'm sure we'll kind of come onto that, but making sure that both sides I always talk about are involved in the decision making process. But if it's a single woman or a woman in general, earning her own salary, the first kind of thinking about, you know, putting structure around your finances. And that's the most important part here is that I do work with a lot of clients who say, you know, I just don't know where my money goes. The end of the month, it just goes through my fingers. I literally have no idea, couldn't tell you where it goes. Now, what I do is really go back to behaviors, okay? So what are your behaviors? Why is it that are you resisting putting your money into kind of looking at a structure in terms of a budget? Or for many women again, I do, and men in general, we avoid often using our banking app to check in our balance. And this is one of the key things. Again, from a psychological perspective, of avoidance behaviors, okay? So what often happens is we avoid checking our banking app because we are afraid of what figure we're going to see there. If it doesn't match up to the figure that we have in our minds. So I've seen this happen quite a lot. You've got a stressful job, and you're thinking, I am earning quite well, but I don't want to check my banking balance because if that's going to be less than what I think it is, I'm going to feel really rubbish, and that's going to bring me down and I'm going to feel worse. Okay, so what I try and do is encourage to people, find ways in bringing that information to you, okay? So if you can, get regular updates from your bank, and ways of explaining, okay, this is what the balance looks like, this is how much we've got left for the end of the month. There are ways in which you can do that with various banks as well and with apps, where you set like limits, but ideally kind of an idea of what you would spend in each bucket. So your understanding, you know, okay, we maybe spend a little bit more on clothes shopping this month, or a little bit more on beauty or whatever it is, just to be mindful and kind of like so that it's not, again, it's about why I'm bringing it back to mindful spending over restrictive spending. Because we don't want to be likening it to being on a diet, this is what often happens when we go down the whole very restrictive budgeting, and we're not here, this isn't to set us up to fail, and it's not about judgment, okay? It's about being visible, making your money visible, first of all, bringing yourself into having that control over your finances, but finding a way that's going to work to you. And if that is bringing that information to you through the bank updating you on these areas or your app or using a different way, that's how we can start putting a structure around it. Again, it's just creating that awareness piece. And this is where I always talk about and again coming back to the emotional side of things. Where people feel quite chaotic with finances is a lot, when we have very stressful jobs, okay, we talk about you mentioned there high incomes. What often happens with high incomes comes very stressful jobs. And what we often find is when we're in stressful jobs, and again I've seen it with clients that I work with, there's a lot of impulse spending going on, and then we feel that regret, and we feel that guilt, and we feel that shame. And what we're trying not to do is we don't want to be, you know, to create that judgment in any ways. But what I want people to do is start thinking about their emotional triggers, okay? So what are the triggers that have triggered that? For often, often, I've worked with clients and they're like, do you know what? Thursdays is my worst day of the week. I have horrible meetings all day, difficult clients, and I literally go home and I just blow loads of money on Amazon delivery. Believe it or not, honestly, this happens. I've seen it with many clients. They do Amazon deliveries. They come straight away. They don't need this stuff, a lot of times they don't need it, and it just piles up. The genuinely, it's one of the trends I've seen of a lot of people just blanket, you know, ordering all this stuff, and it just comes the next day and it's just piled up in the room, and they don't need it and they can't send it back. So this is what genuinely happens. And again, it's not that judgment piece, but what I always say to people is find an opportunity of saying, okay, I recognize why I'm acting like this, but are there other ways in which I can blow off some steam? Like have a facial, go to the gym, find other ways so I'm not impulse spending. Because this is often where we kind of go to is that quick retail therapy, need that in the moment. And I always say to people to try and create like a 24 to 48-hour window. Okay, so if there's something that you really want to spend... for you spend. For you to spend, okay. So add it to the basket, fine, just come back 24 hours later and see whether you still want it. And this is just one of the key things. Again, it's just being aware of what our triggers are around money, okay? What are we influenced by as well. And this is another thing to think about. I did a workshop this morning and we were talking about the same thing about recognizing where our money messages are coming from. Because I know we'll probably touch on lifestyle inflation in Dubai as well. But again, it does come from, you know, when we have these busy jobs and we've got to be seen to our lifestyle's got to be seen to be up to a certain degree and therefore we need to spend and we feel that need to obviously live up and then obviously spend the money on that sense. But yes, I think the first thing is really just recognizing... making yourself aware. Making ourselves aware.

Well exactly. And the thing is, is more, again, it's not creating that judgment, okay? We don't want to judge ourselves because that's gonna add to a lot of that guilt and shame. What we are trying to do and what's helpful about that is more setting a sense of, oh, okay, I recognize that's probably an area I'm spending a little bit too much, but, you know, fair enough. In the summer areas where we may be spending more. But is that bringing you joy?

Exactly. Exactly. And I always bring it back to, you know, finding those things that bring you joy. And that's the most important part, okay? Particularly when we've got very busy, quite stressful lives. What are the areas that are going to bring us joy? But balance out, like you say, thinking about why are we here in Dubai, obviously thinking about the future, the long-term, so making sure we're balancing out that with the longer-term goals as well.

Yeah, look, I mean, we do need to be thinking about future you. Okay, this is what I always talk about is really think, what will future you thank you for today. Okay, so this is the important part. But we need to obviously make sure it doesn't feel intimidating. But just about starting small. Okay, whatever investment strategy we decide to think about, it's starting small and building up and building up that confidence. What I say to people is when you're thinking about getting into investing or finding a field that you want to invest into, just make sure you feel confident in that. Okay, so and to do that is building up our confidence first. Now, what I often say, and again, this isn't regulated financial advice under any means, but really thinking about, okay, perhaps having a diversified portfolio. And this is what we talk about this in particular because a lot of people worry about, you know, what happens if I lose this money? Particularly mentioned there, like crypto, or these things. We see, it looks exciting. Think we can make a lot of money in a short time, but they are very risky, right? Exactly. When we're thinking about our long-term goals and the future and future you, we need to be thinking, as I said, at least five to 10 years plus, particularly when we are investing in the stock market in general, we need to give our money time to grow. Okay? Like you said, not chasing those quick wins, necessarily, and that's not to advise and some people want to try that, but that's thinking quite short-term. We're thinking about long-term wealth, okay? And building up to that. So regardless of where you are in your life, it is important to really think about putting aside a little percentage of your income every single month towards paying future you, okay? And finding a system and a model that is going to work for you. Now, for some people, that is using an investing platform, okay? So something that they can control, something they can manage, whether that's robo-investing or other wider platforms that allow global access to global funds. But getting familiar with that. So first, understand a little bit more around what does investing in the stock market look like? So that's what I'd advise people to get familiar with. Thinking about, we hear terms such as index funds, ETFs, what do they mean? How will this work for me? But what I always advise is to make it less overwhelming, is really find a platform that would work for you, where you can contribute every month a small amount, whether you're starting out with 500 or 1000 dirhams, and just building up once you've got that confidence. The idea here is very much to find something like a fund that you're not necessarily having to check in or go in or make amends or having to know everything about, making fast decisions. Exactly that. So it's about finding a way of, you know, something that you can put into and that's working for you. Now, often times people find that quite helpful with robo-investing apps, and what that is is it asks you a series of questions. And again, this comes down to your, you know, importantly what I should have said earlier on is, you know, understanding your risk appetite. For some people are quite risky or some are more risk-averse, but really understanding because what the robo-investing apps will support you with is saying, okay, well, you're probably middle of the road and therefore we will provide you a structure, a portfolio for you of stocks, so lots of different companies, and then bonds, more safer options for you as well. And therefore your money, you're not needed to do much of the thinking, your money's going in there, and it's working for you, okay? So all you need to do is every now and then, feel free to check in and just see how it's growing. You know, and this is the thing, it's about starting small, building up that confidence, and adding more over time. But the key thing is really thinking about, well, this is something for future me in the next five, ten, 15, 20 plus years that I'm just gonna put aside at a percentage that works for me, works within my wider income, and therefore I don't need to worry about it. And the idea is, again, if we can automate it, so it's just automatically coming in, we don't need to do much of the thinking, but it's growing, and future you is gonna thank you for that later down the line. So again, I think it is about when I talk about diversifying there, like, what are all the other options? You know, for some people, yes, property, and we've seen it happen many times in Dubai, will get those good returns. But again, that has to be something you want to do. I couldn't advise for some because for some people, they find, you know, there are big upfront costs when it comes to property and they may want to move back to their home countries. And so again, it's just about thinking about, okay, where do I want to be in the next five, ten years, and then again, property can provide those returns, and we have seen that. But it's not always the case. And so it's just about, that's why I mentioned about diversifying and thinking about all the different elements of our portfolio that we can build on.

Yes, you can. Exactly that. A lot I hear of this and it comes up a lot in my workshops that I do as well where people say, you know, am I too late, I'm in my 40s. And the answer is no. No, not at all. You can start anytime, okay? Now, it may mean that yes, you'll be putting in more to your portfolio than you would do as a 20, you know, if you're reaching, let's say you want to reach a million dollars by the time you're 65, okay? And that's what you want as your retirement pot. You're going to be putting in a little bit more than what a 20-year-old is probably going to be putting into the investment, you know, if they're investing in the stock market. Because the idea here is compound interest, okay? So that's the key thing to think about. This is why I say you're never too late, it's just more that you might just need to put a bit more in because your money's going to need to work for you. You know, you haven't got that 40-year window necessarily that a 20-year-old is going to have. All it is is as I said, getting started and thinking about, okay, structurally, how is this going to work? Can I afford to put this amount of money aside? And then obviously top up the more that you can. But absolutely, you can start in your 40s, there's no problem.

Yes. So again, it's like look, it's about thinking about what is it that's coming in at the moment that I have control of that I can put aside, you can just pause, right, like putting money aside or investing in this stage. Well again, if you can, if you're able to, it maybe that you reduce those contributions, okay? Ideally, if we can still keep doing a little bit towards that, but again it depends on what we've got coming in, okay? And if we know that there's a big thing that's coming up or life changes or we're going to take some time out of work, if we can build up before that, ahead of the game, understanding that that's coming up, that we can put more towards our investment strategy, that would be great. But again, you know, perhaps it's about just reducing down to what is manageable or taking a couple of years where we don't necessarily need to do that. So again, it's just what works for you in terms of understanding what is coming in to the household and what can you decide to put away. Ideally, we would still want to kind of keep that consistency because it builds that momentum. And this is the important thing that I mention. But again, it's just working out what is coming into the household.

Look, it's always a complicated conversation and it's always difficult because all relationships are different, okay? But what I always encourage is before if you go back to before marriage, it's important at that stage to have open conversations about money, okay? Always have open conversations about money. Because what often times we avoid that in relationships or we shut it down or we leave it to the other half to manage. And this is where we see the red flags happening, okay? It's important for both of you to have access and visibility to what's going on financially first of all. And that's really important. So before we're getting married, it's important to make sure we're on the same page when it comes to our financial goals. Okay? So making sure that we are understanding of our behaviors as well, like when it comes to money, because I often see this in relationships, one person may be very conservative, doesn't want to invest, doesn't want to do, the other is very risk, you know, happy to take on quite a lot of risk. So what we're looking for is just making sure that you're aware of each other's tendencies and habits, but you're having ongoing open conversations about them. Okay, so that's really important. And I always think it's, I know that often one person will look after the bills, but please still have that visibility of it as well. Because this is what's really important. I know that for a lot of us, we, you know, many of us avoid financial admin, we don't want to get involved, we don't want to see the figures going on, but it's important that you do have access to that. Because you will know if the marriage or the relationship is to break down, that you have a sense of what's going on. What I also tend to find, and again in this region, these parts, we do find that often the man in the relationship is working, sometimes the wife isn't working, okay? And what I often advise is where you can, make sure that your husband is still paying you a salary, but you are still receiving money separately, okay? An allowance or a salary, you know, like a salary gives us that control and feels like, for a lot of women, they like to feel like they're getting paid something that they can control. And oftentimes I've worked with women who say, do you know what, even though I haven't got my own money coming in, it's nice to have his money coming in, and I say, I'll take responsibilities of XYZ bills. Because I still feel like I've got that control, okay? So that's the important thing is have a separate bank account for you, really important. Always. Yes, we can have a joint account where the bills come in, and again joint savings, we understand where that money is going, but always have a separate bank account. That's really important, so that money's coming in and if we can ideally, it comes from what money's coming into the household, we're separating that into our own individual pots that we are having for our own goals as well as our joint goals. That's really important. So just making sure that we have got that control over the money. There is something that we own. So don't always, because I have seen it in times unfortunately where you know there is a family credit card and that gets stopped when the marriage is all relationships breaks down and they have nothing. The other half has nothing to live off and that's definitely not the situation we want to be in. So always make sure regardless of where you are, you have a separate bank account and ideally whatever household income is coming in, some of that is going for you to control in that bank account.

No, no, it should always, I agreed. It should always feel, you know, this percentage change. So obviously if somebody is earning double, then you need to sit down and say, okay, well realistically my contribution should be this, and your contribution should be significantly more on that. That should be, you know, fair to be able to do that in the other and both sides of the relationship. And what oftentimes we see is okay, well, your money, you know, what you come in will go to the savings pot, my money will cover all the rest of this. So it's about making it fair and it needs to just work for both of you. And what I say about that is have open conversation around it, okay? Have the money talks, what I always advise is go on a money date, okay? Once a month. Go on a money date. And the important thing there is get out the house, go to a cafe, go for a walk. Don't make it in the house where it's stressful, at the end of the day and you're both ratty. Get out and just sit down and just say, okay, how are we doing financially? Okay. Let me, let's go through where the accounts are, what's coming in. Are the goals the same? Is there any new changes we need to make? How is it feeling on both sides? It's really important to do that because the more money dates you have, the more you're on the same page, the better you're both going to feel. The worst thing we have, and this is what happens so many times, when marriages break down, is that one's holding on to frustration that the other is doing this with the money, and they don't feel like they've got a say. Okay? So this is where we always need to try and have those open conversations as much as possible.

Exactly, and what we want to do, and the important part that you've mentioned there is, when we are having these conversations, to remove judgment, okay? Always remove judgment from that. Because if you come to the table, well, you're spending too much in this area, already breaking down that conversation, you're feeling judged, you're on the back foot. It's never gonna work. So always come with open mind, okay, great, I get that that's really important for you. I talk about me and my husband, right? I always find that my little thing of joy I always say, I have a flat white coffee from a local cafe, lots of different cafes, once a day. That is my little piece of joy. And my husband, I tell you what, he has literally racked up the amount of coffees I've, like, you know, and he's like... Are you spending, how much on coffee? I said just like, fine, that brings you joy? That's fine. We have a little coffee fund, that's what I spend money on. You know, and that makes me happy and that's the little thing that gets me through the day. But you know, it's having that open conversation without judgment, you know. Yes, he doesn't get coffee, doesn't like it. He's never gonna get it. Maybe he spends on bigger things, like once a year. Exactly. That accumulates to the same amount. Exactly. So golf or whatever, you know like. These sort of things. It's about having that balance and just finding those things that make each other happy and be okay with that and be accepting of it.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, it totally makes sense.

Yeah, if they're promising high returns within a short amount of time. That seems a red flag to me. And also looking, and what a lot of people don't realize is the interest fees that they take. So sometimes it's between 1 and 3%. It seems reasonable. But actually, if you're intent on growing your money over a long period of time, because what it is that they are earning on top of your all the money that your money is earning, they're earning that percentage, and that is compounding. Yeah. Now, for many people, that's fine, and that's not a problem, it's not to criticize in any way, but just to be mindful that for many times, if it's over a course of 20 odd years, sometimes it could be as much as 70 odd thousand plus that you could be using that money elsewhere. And this is where I talk about if, but again, it comes down to, you know, what is it that you're prioritizing. For many people, they say, right, I don't want to think about investing, I trust this person, they will look after my money for me, so I'm not needing to worry about it. Which is fine, but just be mindful of what the interest rate is there in terms of how much they're making on the money. But again, I think it comes down to what we've seen those red flags about those really, you know, quick returns and a short amount of time. What is it that they're looking to invest in? That's really important. Just be mindful if you are going with a financial advisor that they are up front and they're explaining where they're putting your money. Where it's going to be kept, which accounts, are there any additional fees, are there additional taxes that you need to be aware of? How frequently are they going to update you and what's going on with your portfolio? All these different things you need to be mindful of. So just again, it's finding somebody that you trust, and that is, that's going to be unique to you. I wouldn't be able to give specific advice on on that, but it's more finding about again get recommendations of other people where they've seen that. Um, but yeah, that's one of my key things, because again when we're thinking about investing for the long term, always keep that in mind in terms of, you know, don't always chase the quickest wins or the people who promise big returns or anything crypto or anything else like that.

Sometimes, yeah.

Yes, exactly that. So yes, I do help individuals, also couples as well, so I work with couples. Yeah, I've done quite a few couples sessions where we go through the money, again it's opening up those conversations. Well, honestly it is. I do act in that. But yes, I do work individually with both men and women actually when it comes to money. A lot of the corporates that I work with, again, there's different programs where again I offer financial one-on-one coaching through that as well. So see lots of different, yeah. See many clients each week.

Yeah, look, it is a very different way of working obviously for freelancers as well. And it's about, I mean it is challenging because the challenge with freelancers is a lot of work is seasonal. And then some months you have what I call feast and famine months. So some months where it's really, you have a really healthy month and it's above whatever you thought, and then other months you it's it's slower. And we're probably seeing that in particular now at the moment with obviously what's been happening around the region as well and the impact that's had on a lot of influencers and people predicting the events industry, things like that where, you know, things have been postponed or cancelled. And therefore what we find is a lot of people feeling quite financially stressed at the moment because, you know, not knowing what's going to come the next month. So I always talk about ideally having a buffer in place, okay? So if we think about the, like I call it an emergency fund, okay. We want to be trying if we are in employment, obviously getting paid regularly, I would be aiming for three to six months of my basic expenses covered. But for those who have solid income, we're probably looking about three to six months of essential expenses. But if you're your own, you know, your own company or you're a freelancer, this needs to be a lot higher, at least six to nine months, ideally getting up to one year really of thinking about if I don't have that, if that money doesn't come in for the next two months, how how am I going to live? How am I going to make the basics work, okay? So again, it's just structuring money a little bit differently, so making sure that we've got that buffer in place. And I always say for people thinking about going from corporate to freelance, we have this money in place so that there's a buffer for us to lean on in those times. And again, it's about, when we can work with that buffer and the money that we've got coming in, what does that look like for the next sort of 12 months and how can I work, and what is the average that I'd want to be working on with with my expenses and things like that. So it is structuring it in a very different way often to how we would do.

Yeah, so I mean, for me it is around having a structure in my life, and different what I call my different buckets. Okay, we haven't come onto buckets yet. But I always like to have my money, and my husband obviously as a family, we have money structured into different savings buckets. And that's always something that makes me feel confident, and I have short-term goals in there and I have long-term goals in there. So I know exactly where all my money is, I know how it's working for me. I have an idea of my net worth, our net worth as well, of where all the different money is going and how it's contributing to our future goals. And I say we've got various buckets and investments and savings that are making sure that we've got the long-term goals looked after, but we're also looking at the short-term goals as well. So the holidays or the things that bring us joy in the moment. But for me, it's about, as I say, having various buckets, knowing what my goals are, and how my money and how I'm contributing to that through the work that I'm doing at the moment and how that's topping everything up. So again, for me, it's having structure, okay? That makes me feel confident. I love the buckets as well. They're labeled, I know what they are, I know what each one is doing, it's... my money has a purpose, okay? So every single area of my finances has a purpose. And yeah, I have the coffee fund, the fun fund that I mentioned earlier, so things that bring me joy every single month, there's money allocated for that. And that makes me feel confident and good, because I'm topping up my cup now and I can sleep at night, peacefully. And but I've also got the emergency fund, okay? So for those months when things may feel a bit quieter, we've got money there, okay? That's what helps me, and that emergency fund is what helps me sleep at night in all honesty. If anything happens and life throws so many curveballs at you, that money is there to support you and give you that peace of mind, okay? So that's important.

I think be kind to yourself. Be kind to yourself when it comes to money. And hopefully the message that we've said throughout all of this is, look, don't judge. It's not about judgment, regardless of what people around you saying. You know, be kind with your money. Like, when it comes to money, just be kind, be gentle. Don't always feel like you have to restrict yourself because you've had a blowout month or things like that. Just be kind, okay.

Exactly. Yeah, that's exactly.

Thanks for having me. Pleasure.