Money is the number one reason that women stay in relationships that are not working for them. And it's also the one thing they find most difficult to speak to their partner about. Like it's the person you love, the person you walked down the aisle or walked around a, you know, a mandap if you're South Asian with, and yet, you know, it's a really uncomfortable conversation.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks, that's a great question. Yeah, I was in the coaching space for a long time and then I went into the divorce coaching space, but I'd always say I'm the divorce coach that doesn't want anyone to get divorced. And so I trained to do relationship coaching. And I started to recognize just patterns. Like money is the number one reason that women stay in relationships that are not working for them. And it's also the one thing they find most difficult to speak to their partner about. Like it's the person you love, the person you've walked down the aisle or walked around a, you know, a mandap if you're South Asian, with, and yet, you know, it's a really uncomfortable conversation. And I am a solo parent and I had been sort of building up my own portfolio and yeah, so a couple of years ago I just kind of segued into the money space and now I teach women how to invest.

So it actually taught me that we're far more similar than different. Cause it wasn't like countries only in Europe or countries only in... it was like Africa, Asia, Europe. So it was, you know, all across the board. And yeah, it made me realize that we're far more similar. There are certain cultures where talking about money is a lot harder. So like when I was in Ireland, for example, they spoke about money a bit more easily, especially amongst family and that's because it was very segregated. Everybody had their own money. I think in certain cultures, like in Nigeria or when I lived in Hong Kong, money is often referred to as like a family thing. And so that changes the conversation around it as well.

So it's a bit of both. I think a lot of what the family say comes from the culture. And the culture sort of dictates it. So just as an example, it's really normal within Indian culture for your parents to throw you a huge wedding and pay for the entire thing. In the West, that's not the case, right? Your parents, especially now, it's changing, but your parents might give you some money towards your wedding, but really you're paying for your wedding. That's unheard of, like in the Indian culture, it's like, of course my parents are going to throw me a four-day wedding, right?

Minimum. So that's a cultural thing. And the same in Nigeria, for example, I lived in Nigeria, a wedding is a massive, massive deal there. There are multiple outfit changes in one day, sometimes not over four days. There's like a traditional wedding and then a more party part to the wedding. And even there, for example, they have the guests wearing matching fabric, and the guests are expected to pay for the fabric.

Yeah. And so it's a conversation. It's a money conversation. But it's not being had and then you'll hear people saying, oh, I've been to like 16 weddings this year and it's only in July and I've paid for every, what they call Aso Ebi, which is the fabric. I've paid for it. So it becomes expensive.

Yeah, it can. But at least there you get to choose how much you want to give. You get to choose like what you want to wear, where you're going to buy your outfit from, whereas, you know, in Nigeria, the fabric is the fabric.

So there's many cultures that don't talk about money, but they show their status via things, right? So like the car, the handbag, the new house, like the traveling, all of those kind of things. But I always say to people, that's a status game and we have no idea how much someone actually has based on the car that they're getting. Like in Dubai, I have a 14-year-old, he's very impressed by all the cars, naturally. But I say to him, you know, a lot of the people don't own them. They can rent them for the day. I was like, we could rent one for the day. It doesn't mean that you have the car. And it's the same thing with anything. But I do think on the culture point that in Europe there is an over-arching thing of like, shh, don't talk about money. You don't want to come across as arrogant. You don't want to come across as being a bit of a show-off. But I think that we can talk about money without coming across as being a show-off. Like it's so different in the US. You go to the US and they're very open about making money and talking about money. And you can really feel the difference even if you just look online at content creators. The way it's changing now, but I feel like in the UK it's changing in London. But it's not changing anywhere else. So it might be changing in big cities in Europe, but it's not changing fast enough. Whereas in the US they're very open about money. There's a lot of transparency. They talk about it like it's just a thing because it is just a thing.

Yeah, and we talk so openly about everything else, but we can't talk about money, which is the one thing we all need.

That's a great question. I think it's something that people don't think about enough. They're so subtle. So, for example, I had a client once, he was German, but he lived in the US. And when we were talking about him wanting to build a business, he just thought, 'Oh, I need someone who can like tell me what to do.' But actually, it was a complete mindset shift. So when I started talking to him about money, what he realized is one of the things he was most worried about, the belief that he held was, 'Oh, my father tried to be an entrepreneur and put a lot of money into a business and lost it all, and therefore being an entrepreneur is too risky, or it's not going to work, or maybe I'll do the same thing.' And so he was holding all these limiting beliefs even though in reality everything about his life and what he'd built was so different to his father who'd lived in Germany. And so sometimes it's just about recognizing the beliefs, awareness is the first point, and then thinking, 'Okay, do I want to believe this? Do I want to hold on to this?' And then identifying it and then changing it.

So I think, like I said, I think we're more similar actually than we are different. I think the way people speak about money comes down to how they feel about it, but also what they think they can get away with saying. So here, I think women don't tend to talk about money much. It's seen as kind of crass and just not something that they should be doing, they should be the quieter ones and the expectation then is that they're taken care of. I think in Nigeria women are a lot louder. They really do speak about money. But it doesn't mean the same fears aren't there. So I remember when I lived in Lagos more recently as an adult, I had women who'd come up to me and I could kind of gauge that they weren't in a great relationship. And when I'd ask them, they'd say things like, one lady said to me at midnight at a cocktail party, she was like, 'I need to just stay for five years because if I leave he'll stop paying the boarding school fees and my kids are in boarding school in the UK. It's really expensive.' And I just remember thinking, oh wow, so there's like a... they talk about money but there's also very much a feeling of fear around it. Like, I will stay if I have to because it can be taken away. So there's still the talking, but there isn't the point where it's like the money I have is giving me options and freedom because it's not. They're still very much in a patriarchal society. And so I think that to me that's the main difference. Like they're talking about it there, but it's not really changing much.

Definitely. We have to be able to talk about it.

I think you have to actively work on it in order to identify it. So I've been working on my money mindset now for eight years. And it's like new level, new devil, right? And every time I go into a deeper level, I will realize something and be like, 'How did I not see that before? What? Oh my god, I didn't even associate this and this.' And then I'll realize and be like, 'Oh wow, okay, so that's what's been stopping me from doing this. Okay, I'm going to sit and work on that now.' And so I think it has to be active. It just doesn't appear. You have to be reflective. You have to take the time to be reflective, do some journaling, get some prompts online and answer things. I think it's when you sit with yourself and actually be honest and answer the questions that you wouldn't ask yourself normally, that's when you're like, 'Oh wow, I didn't realize I thought that way.'

Yeah, I think you can form as young as five or seven years old because a lot of the beliefs that are being formed don't necessarily have to be someone telling you something. Like it's not them saying, 'Oh, we don't have enough money.' You could just notice that when your mum's at the supermarket she hesitates over something. Or you notice that your dad comes back and he's on the phone and you hear them talking about money and they feel stressed. Children pick up on so much, right? And they pick up on energy. Which is why also when people say to me like, 'Oh, I'm just going to stay for the sake of my children,' I'm like, 'It's doing a disservice to your children to do that.' But I just think, yeah, they can be formed early, but they can also be changed. A lot of people say, 'Oh, they form and then that's it.' No, they're not set in stone.

They're not set in stone.

I hear you.

I think it's how you phrase it. And I'm with you on the money mindset because my 14-year-old has a money mindset I wish I had now. His mindset is so abundant. And I really try not to say too much because I want him to keep that sense of abundance without being too delusional about the fact that you have to actually work for money.

Exactly. So I think it's how you phrase it. And it depends on the age of the child. So if your child is younger, it might be like, 'Oh, this is our budget for the week and that's not in our budget this week. But let's look at how we can get it another time.' Because you don't want to just say you can't have it. Children don't understand that. They need to see it within the context of something else. But as they get older, one of the things I say to my son now is, 'That's not within my values.' Because we live in Dubai. The wants get higher and higher. 'Can we buy a jetski?' No, actually, I'm sorry, we cannot buy a jetski. 'Why can't we buy a jetski?' Because it's not within the values I have. But I think honesty is important. Because if you don't give them an honest answer, they're going to make their own assumptions. And their assumptions are always going to be like we just don't have it, and then that becomes a belief, right? So you want to just tie it to something.

Yeah. And at this age the other reason those conversations are really important is because they're not teaching it at school. Like financial literacy is still not being taught at school. So they don't understand the breakdown of things. And I think we need to be different to the last generation. Where the last generation it was very much like, work hard, save your money, buy a house. You must buy a house. That is the epitome of what you have to do. And now the world has changed and millennials who can't get on the property ladder feel like they've failed because they haven't been able to buy a house. But it doesn't work to buy a house now for many people.

Exactly. They're traveling more. They can pick up and leave whenever they want. They're moving countries more. So maybe buying a house worked in the 80s when you lived in the one place and you grew up in the same house. But it's just not working now. And I think that's the disconnect. And that's where the beliefs need to change and come into like, what is the reality now? Do I still think buying a house should be top of my list? Maybe not.

Yeah.

Your guess is as good as mine. So I used to teach. And I was so frustrated with the system because I just thought they're not teaching children... And I'm one of those people who will find something I like and then I will deep dive and listen to 16 podcasts and watch three videos and try and understand that thing. And I just was like, but what kids are seeing in the real world and what they're seeing on social media, because put all the bans in place that you want, kids are still accessing it. And then they're seeing things and then suddenly like, 'What I'm learning and what I see in the real world like they're not correlating.'

There's a huge disconnect. And I think they're doing better in the UAE in that because there's not so much bureaucracy. It's like, 'Hey, you need to implement AI.' KHDA will say, 'You need to be having financial literacy.' In the UK to try and change the curriculum, I mean, it's going to take six years and 20 people signing off on it. It's just not happening. And so I think actually now, and I don't want to lump another thing onto parents that they have to do, but I think it's really important for parents outside of school to start introducing children to the concepts of financial literacy and money mindset. And there's so much of it that you can access online. You just have to take the time to do it. But it's so important because schools are just not teaching that to children.

Yeah, I love that. Valley of debt.

Instead of death. It's so true. So I think that is where kind of self-love and self-trust come in. Because you're right. You really do have to love yourself enough to say I don't need all of that to prove anything. And what's interesting is, in all the kind of things I watch and listen to, at least with men, I feel like the more money they make, the less they need to show that they have money. So actually the less things they need, the less yachts, they just go about doing what they need to do. Often they'll wear the same clothes because it takes away decision fatigue and stuff.

Yeah. But so many of them. And I feel like with women, there is a little bit of an unfair advantage because it's not just women who expect that. There's an expectation that you'd look a certain way, right? And we can't change that overnight. It's not just in how we look at ourselves, but people, like there are studies to show that people listen to someone who's, you know, if I came in my gym gear with a top knot right now, they might just be like, 'What is she saying?' right? So you do have to make a bit of an effort. But I do think that especially in a place like Dubai, it's really important to know what your values are and then live in alignment with those values. Because and especially when you're in business. Like so many people will say to me, 'When you're marketing teaching women how to invest, if you just do some reels where you're going into Dubai Mall and you're buying stuff from Chanel or Gucci, then people will be like, oh, I want that. She's got that. I'm going to learn from her.' And I'm like, 'But that's not in alignment with who I am.' It's like, can you go in and buy all those things? Sure. But I want to be able to teach women to want money for freedom, for options, for choices. And so that's what I'm going to put forward. I'm going to be like, 'You can go and buy all the things. But really, when you make that money the things are not going to matter as much. The freedom you get...'

Yeah. Yeah, the freedom, the things you can do for your family, the choices that you can make. All of that is, your bag is not going to do that for you.

I think so. Your environment really, really matters. I can see the difference between living in London, which is an amazing city. But living in London versus living in Dubai, there's a real energy here of like, 'Let's go out and build this.' And because it's such an expat city, I've never lived somewhere that is more set up for people to meet other people. Like the networking and stuff like that. You're kind of like a big fish in a small pond, which is a really great feeling. But yeah, I do think your environment really matters. And that's one of the things I've loved about living in so many different places. And it's like earlier you were saying, like I can talk to anyone. I feel the same. And in fact, people might not like this, but in the West, one of the things I'm really disappointed about is you're not allowed to ask anyone where are you from. Like they don't like that question in the West. But can I tell you I've had some of the most meaningful conversations when I ask someone, 'Hey, where are you from?' And say they say Nigeria and then kind of look at me expectantly because maybe they think I don't know it and I'm like, 'Oh my God, I grew up there.' And the conversations that come out of that are so beautiful. And I just think we're kind of losing that in the West because everyone's trying to be so PC. And it's like, 'What do you mean where am I from? I'm from here.' And I'm like, 'Okay, yeah, I get that. But culturally where are you from?' And we shouldn't lose those points of connection. Whereas in Dubai it's so normal to ask where are you from.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think it's about identifying which of those beliefs are working for us and which are not working for us. And so, like I am of Indian heritage but this is my eighth country. And so I kind of think to myself, what do I really value about the Indian culture? What do I like about it? Not just in terms of money, but in terms of everything else, in terms of family. And I keep those. I think that's important. And then I'm like, 'What is not working for me?' So I always say to people, it's like when you're born you get this patch of grass and you're too young to look after it, right? And so it goes to your parents or your caregivers. And then they plant all these things. And then when you grow up, you're given this patch of grass and you might have some beautiful roses and chrysanthemums and plants, but then you have some weeds, right? That's completely natural. And so it's about looking at that and being like, 'Oh I love that, they're so beautiful. But I'm just going to pick those weeds out because it's not working for me. They don't serve me.' And I don't want that weed to like kill that plant. And so you just take them out and you replant the things that would suit you because it's now your patch of grass. And I always say to people, when you're doing this work of identifying the beliefs that don't serve you, you have to do it with utmost compassion. Cause it's very easy to say like, 'Oh, this is the way I was raised and my parents said this,' and then be angry. But everyone does everything based on their version of the world. And so even when they were passing these beliefs down to you, and often unconsciously, they didn't do it from a place of like, you should have this limiting belief. It was just their version of the world. And it's the same thing with us now as parents. There will be beliefs we pass on to our children that, in 10 years time or 20 years time, they may be in therapy for. They'll be like, 'My mum wouldn't let me get a jet ski or my mum used to say this.' And they'll have to unpack those beliefs because none of us are doing it perfectly. But everyone's doing the best that they can given their version of the world.

I think so. I think that is changing quickly because with social media there's so many women supporting women. But unfortunately, maybe it's a biology thing, but I do think that there's still an element of like, 'Oh, I don't want my wife to be out-earning me.' But again, I think that comes down to conversation. Like we have to be able to have conversations around this. The resentment or anything only builds in silence, right? Like shame only sits in silence. And so I think that if we have more conversations about it and make it very matter-of-fact, then we have a better chance of that being okay. And I think also women need to own it. You know? So like if a woman's doing really well, she needs to own it. Not like cower and kind of be like, 'Oh yeah, I'm earning this, but you know, he's taking care of everything else.' It's like, no, own what you're doing. That it's amazing.

That's a hot take. I love it. I think so. Because thus far, it has very much been that way, right? Like women, there's a finance piece that is often not talked about. But it's true. Women need men who have provided for them. And can I say, I know on social media it almost shows us that that's not the case anymore. It is. It's still the case in the majority of places. It's just starting to change in the West. But the West is not the whole world, right? There's a whole world out there where women are still marrying for that kind of financial support. It is changing and it should because men are also changing. And there's a lot of men now who are not doing their kind of quote-unquote 'duty', whereas before, say something didn't work before. A man would still provide for his children and stuff.

And now it's not anymore. Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah. Why do they feel they need to justify it? I feel like in general women have always been subtly told that they have to take care of everyone around them. And so you see it in obviously women taking care of their children, there's like that whole silent emotional labour that's not talked about. Like for example, when I work with women, if I have a one-to-one client, even if they have a full-time job, if you look at the emotional labour at home and even if they have what they call a 'hands-on husband,' it's the little things like, is my daughter's favorite green bowl washed? Is the yellow t-shirt washed for my son? We have a birthday party this weekend, have I bought the present? Have I written the card? Have I wrapped the present? Have I RSVP'd that we're going to the party?

Exactly. All of that. So even if you have a hands-on partner who drops them to school in the morning and takes them to a football class on Saturday, it's probably like 5% compared to the 95% of silent emotional labour that they are doing. And the one thing I actually have to say to women is, you have two jobs. If you are working outside the home, you have two jobs. Like don't underestimate that, right? The bandwidth you need to have all of those tabs open to remember all of those things. That takes a lot.

Yeah. They have to have these conversations before they get married. And it could be simple things. So like when I work with couples, sometimes before they get married, because there's certain conversations that they just don't have. And it's easier to have them with an objective person. One of the things would just be how do you see money? Or what did you see growing up? Because essentially two people coming into relationship have two different blueprints. And then when they come together they're trying to put the blueprints one on top of the other and they're not aligning. And you want to align with some of the big things. So another question could be if your parent was to get sick like God forbid. Who would take care of them? Who would pay for their treatment? Where would the money come from? And a lot of times people haven't thought about that. In Indian culture, the son would step up often to take that financial burden. And I think it's really important to go into these conversations like almost talking first about the fact that it's you against money. It's not you against you. Like it's not the man against the woman. Because when you start having these conversations they can get really sensitive, right? It could be like, 'Well why should I do this? And why should I pay for this?' and suddenly you're like, 'Whoa, that's not the conversation we're having. We just wanna align on our money values.' And so there's different ways to do it. Some people will say we each earn our own money. We have a joint account. And we put money into that and we spend that for our family. So if you wanna do something for your family that's on you. There are other people who do it in terms of percentages. So if a man is earning like four times as much as his partner is, then he will be putting a percentage of his salary into that joint account. She'll be putting a percentage, so it's not like 50-50 exactly.

Which would be a little unfair. Yeah. So they need to have conversations about this.

I say to people there is absolutely nothing wrong with being provided for. I mean, I think secretly everybody would love that, right? I mean, yeah, sure, just provide. But I think that financial agency and financial literacy is really really important. So I say to all people, even if you are a stay-at-home mom, that is wonderful that you get to do that for your family. But like, again, my hot take is that stay-at-home moms should have some sort of stipend that they have that is just theirs.

100%.

Yeah. Cause I think sometimes also people, and men specifically, forget that the reason they can have this amazing family and a job is because they have a wife, you know, they have a wife, and in some cases that wife is working and in some cases she's a stay-at-home mom. If they were to have that without her, they would be paying for it, right? You'd pay for your nanny, you'd pay for your housekeeper, you'd pay for a driver. And so, yeah, I do believe that women should get some sort of stipend and every woman should have her own bank account.

Hmm. One money belief they should question? I think it is 'I don't know enough to start investing.'

I don't know enough to start investing. I have spent so much time with women who are top of their game. Earning really, really well, fantastic at their job, like director level, and they don't invest. Or they give it to their dad, their brother, or their partner, their husband to invest for them because they think that they don't know enough to invest. And that is one thing I think every woman needs to question.

Yeah. So before they invest, I would say, I run a program to teach women how to invest, but even if someone says, I just want to do something for free, go online and just start 30 minutes a week, just start understanding like what is some of the jargon, what do they mean when they talk about market cap, what do they mean when they talk about price to earning ratio because they love throwing these words and PE ratio and you're like, what is that? And that feels overwhelming, right? But I also say to women, you had no idea how you were gonna grow a human being.

And you jumped head first into that and you read all the books and you did all the things and you understood how you should wean them and how much milk you should give them and when you should introduce water. And you trusted yourself enough to do that, trust yourself enough to learn this. Like just go out there and read and watch videos and start to understand what it's about. And then take the first step. But it's the belief that you're even capable of doing it that I would love to instill.

And I'd also take a step further and be like, what makes you think that it's risky?

Because, you know, people say, oh, it's risky. I'm like, yeah, what makes you believe that it's risky?

It could be. It could be that you know, like for me I remember, my family are very much into real estate and other assets, but they didn't really invest in the stock market. And it was because years ago when we lived in Nigeria, there was someone who came in from Dubai and told everyone about how he'd made these incredible returns. And this was a long time ago when people didn't fact check stuff. So they just gave him money, and he came back to Dubai and he lost money. And people there had a lot of money. So I'm not talking about losing 10 or 20,000. People gave him like 300,000, 500,000, a million, and he lost it. And so everyone was like, 'Oh, the stock market is so risky. This guy lost it.' And I'm like, 'One second, he lost it because you didn't question, he just came in and said he made all this money and none of you questioned it.' And so I think just even asking why do you think it's risky. And if it's about an outdated belief, then the next question is do I really believe that? I don't believe that. I don't want to believe that. And so you change your belief. But I think people just say it's risky and they stop there and they don't ask themselves the next question. And I think that's what we need to do, ask ourselves more questions.

Yeah. So my kind of line is that I teach women how to invest to be wealthy in five years, not when they're 65. And the reason I...

Yeah, and the reason I say that is because, and some people don't like this, but I'm going to say it anyway. Everyone I went to learn to how to invest when I started learning many, many years ago would just say invest in the S&P 500 and then when you're 65 it'll compound and when you're 65 you'll have $1.5 million. Okay, first of all, when, because I've worked in the relationship and divorce coaching space, I am like women do not need to wait until they're 65, a lot of women need money like now. Second of all, the S&P is not as diversified as it used to be. But third of all, a lot of the research that they talk about about why you should invest in these ETFs is so outdated and if you actually dig some of those reports out and look at what they say, you'll see that a lot of the stuff is outdated. There is so much information at our fingertips that I think it's a great time for women to be active investors. And that's where you can grow your wealth a lot faster. I would never though tell a... like when I run the program, it's eight weeks, we start with money mindset and then we talk about what is your budget, how much you actually have to invest. What is your risk tolerance? What is your investor profile? What sort of investor are you? So I'd never say to someone, hey, you should just stock pick and be an active investor and you can make a lot more money. No, we go through the whole gamut of like, is it in your risk profile? If it's not, no, then you stick to an ETF and maybe the growth will be slower, but it'll be growth whatever. Because the other thing people love to say is oh the S&P 500 has returned 10% every year annualized over the last 30 years. But did you know that between the years 2000 and 2012 it was flat? It gave no returns for 12 years. And so I just want women to know that they can be active investors if they want to. It's there, the information is all there. And so yeah I encourage it. I encourage women to be active investors.

Yeah. You're right. There is a lot of sort of finance bro energy. And then even with women teaching women, one end of the spectrum is the day trading, oh look I made this in a day and then I went into LV and bought all this stuff. And that didn't kind of resonate with me. And then on the other hand, it's the just keep putting in a little bit of money and wait until you're 65. And I was like, there has to be a middle ground. There has to be a way that my risk profile doesn't allow for day trading. Like I'm not trying to do that. But I don't wanna also be passive and sit there and wait until I'm 65 like I want money now. And what I wanted to create, which I kind of have created now, is a group of women, because after they finish the eight weeks they then get added to what I call the her portfolio wealth circle. And it's a WhatsApp group and there's about 20 women in there and all of them are sharing what they're finding. And so...

They learn from each other. And then once a quarter we get on a call. And I love it because one woman will be like, 'Hey, last time you mentioned Uber. Did you know that I read this thing? I'm sending you an article now.' Or another woman, so there's no finance bro energy. It's women who wanna help other women and the returns these women are making are amazing. And it's because now you've got a group of 20 who have your back. They're all looking out for you. So it's not like that energy of like, 'Hey, put it in this and you'll make 50%.' It's like, 'Hey, I just read this thing about this company that's making the LIDAR things for robotics and it's underperforming, it's only at this now, I think it's going to pop.' And then someone else will invest in it, it'll jump 60% and then they'll sell it. But women actually are much better at this than men because they can regulate their nervous system more. So actually I'm like you are much better placed for this sort of stuff because you can stay calm without getting caught up in that 'Oh my god, it's up, it's down, what should I do with it?' And I think they're underestimating themselves.

There you go.

Yeah. So I'm glad you asked that because when I lived in the UK eToro did that. You could piggyback and just copy trade. I am a little skeptical about that only because you don't know what that person's risk profile is. And if it's different to your risk profile...

Okay. That's good. Because I think if you just went in and said oh look that person made like all these returns I want to do that. But that's not the case because you shouldn't be doing that. So yeah risk is really important. Like I for example I like growth stocks and I've put aside a certain amount that I'm quite happy to sit with really high risk because there's high risk and high reward. But that's something I've done. So sometimes even within the wealth circle, because I do a lot of research and then every week I drop that research in there for them. I always say to them, this is not financial advice. You need to do the research based on your risk profile, you need to decide if this is something that you want to invest in. But because I know the women now, there is some research I don't even drop in there. Because I know none of them have this risk profile and I would never want someone to try and copy trade me and not be able to sit with that volatility. You know? I think so it's very transparent and I think that's what's really, really important. It really irks me when people come onto social media and they're like, 'Oh I was able to make this return and that return.' But I'll also go on and be like, 'Hey, last week the market dipped and I lost $23,000 in two days. But I didn't lose it because I didn't sell it. But it went down.' And I've regulated my nervous system enough to sit with that, knowing that I placed trades that I'm happy with and eventually it'll go back up. But not everyone has done that. And so I think that people are like panicking then sometimes.

So that piece is really, really important. And I haven't told anyone this but I'll tell you. I've built a personalized AI dashboard for every woman who does her portfolio. And the idea behind it is that it has a red button. So if they want to go to sell, they have to answer a series of questions so it stops them.

You take a step back and it's like 'Wait, did something happen to your thesis? Did it change? Are you just panicking because it dropped? Did the fundamentals change?' So they actually have to pause and be like, 'Oh, wait a minute. No, actually none of that changed. Okay, let's not panic.' And it's the same when they're buying something, they have to answer a series of like eight or 10 questions to solidify their thesis and their conviction in that stock.

Yeah.

Sure, thank you.

No, it's my pleasure.

That sounds good. Thanks Iwona.

Thank you! Oh my god, this was so good.